(TL) You also seem to have a somewhat random approach to making, also denying one singular approach. How does that work for you? How do you make choices about how to choreograph your approach and the work in situ?

(HH) So, basically, you start with conditioning the elements to operate within a certain framework. Once it forms a somewhat cohesive unit, it moves onto a next level by additional elements, which of course breaks the framework cultivated by the conditioning.

This is actually sort of similar in essence with what I do, in which, elements are conditioned to be on a sketch pad expressed with pencil marks. The resulting idea would then merge with additional elements without the restrictions of the conditioning.

Recognition of a pattern indicates that a pattern is recognizable. For instance, we recognize a circle in a concrete manner with a mathematical expression. Or, we recognize a certain form as a symbolic representation of something else. But, we also recognize art work, music, poetry, literature and so on as recognizably profound, liberating or resonating without recognizing it in a concrete term. As you phrased it, we somehow sense it.

I speculate that when we achieve that sort of expression, it has a potential to encompass something fundamental to our existence without truncating its mystery and unknown. This, again I speculate, allows us mortal beings to merge fully with the depth and width of the material reality which goes beyond our existence.

Now, regarding my approach being somewhat random, I think it might have to do with my belief that a work generally manifest itself as I observe elements intensely and facilitate their dynamics. I almost become one with the dynamics of the elements. So I might sense that it might be a little risky to stick with a routine which might cloud my perceptions to observe the unique dynamics, which are unique since we don’t stay at the same space and time. We change as individuals and as a collective and our circumstances also change. Paradoxically, I sense that this sort of caution is useful in grasping and examining what it is to live with some consistency rooted in humanity and nature. Also, I simply like to look at things from various locations. It’s just me working on sculptures, paintings or prints, but things are expressed differently due to the method’s propensity. I think I enjoy seeing various aspects of what I see as artistically meaningful. Also, a certain thing might be expressed better in one mode or another. I also think learning about various methods informs each method as well. Making is hard, you know? At least it is for me. I try to be flexible and adaptable.

Now, your approach seems very intriguing. Your dialogue with forms and materials starts as you salvage those seasoned materials with such physicality. Perhaps such engagement at the early stage allows or necessitates your use of guidelines or systems without stifling the liveliness. It seems to work very well as I can see in the fantastic results.

Looks like some exciting things are happening in your studio. There is always a satisfying feeling to successfully capturing raw elements for me. How do you see where you are in your path of studio practice? Any new things emerging?

(TL) My work, my life, philosophies, aspirations, struggles, joys, heartbreaks are all one-and that is me. It is impossible for me to completely separate them as they all inform on each other. Over the years I have certainly gotten better at compartmentalizing things so they don't necessarily bleed all over everything else. This ability to create space has helped me be a better father, husband, son, and probably artist. Life can be messy and keeping the mess somewhat contained to the situation at hand can be beneficial.

I live a clean life. I no longer drink or use mind altering substances and haven't for many decades now. I eat healthfully and, as we talked about earlier, exercise many days a week. What does this have to do with my work? Everything. I find when I can calm my body, my mind follows, and eventually my soul is touched by all of this as well. Working is hard, physically demanding, and there are many people involved in the results of my work--galleries, institutions, collectors, curators, and sometimes students. The studio work alone is a lot, but I have been blessed with a certain degree of success as well. Maintaining my boundaries on all levels is important. I don't want undue influence from one area to seep into another. Being a grounded, well rounded and balanced person helps with all of this. I work to find myself and what is meaningful to me.

Earlier I mentioned I am mercurial. Maybe I should explain that a bit more. What I mean is I hold nothing to be precious in what I do. In any way. I allow myself to explore and because I have no hierarchy in my work, I make no preferences. I allow myself to move between issues, materials, modalities, concerns, aesthetics, and philosophical considerations. It's sort of like tasting food. If you eat the same things all the time, that is your eating experience. I love food and like to eat all sorts of things as long and as I don't overdue anything or do too much of a certain thing, I feel good in my body, mind, and soul.

When I was younger, I was quite ambitious. Perhaps it was a holdover from the competitive sports I did through college. That drive or quality eventually found its way into my studio. That was not good! It infected my work and it took a long time to remove it. Now it is gone, I feel quite at peace with myself, however, I do have to remain vigilant to its return. I used to have high demands on myself and the work. I no longer care about creating demands. I have to say I quite enjoy making the work and if something or nothing happens as a result I am pretty much fine with that. Not totally, but I am getting better at letting go of my expectations. What do they say, "poco a poco!" Little by little.

How about you? You have always struck me as a fairly calm and balanced person. Is that just my projection or is this really the way you are? How do you find your balance between life, work, family, career, or whatever? Life is marvelous. If you allow it, it will completely illuminate you. We do have shadow sides and it can be quite interesting to explore these aspects of ourselves. Don't you think?

(HH) Well, balancing is hard I must admit. I also try to eat well, and I don’t drink or do drugs (something I had to learn with some efforts). There are things I’ve found through my studio practice. Some of the things you have already mentioned—like, you don’t cultivate hierarchy in what you see, all things are interconnected, and you have to be ready for any impulse whether it’s external or internal. There needs to be a great degree of honesty in seeing and fairness in perceiving in order to sense the dynamics of the elements in my studio. And every time I somehow arrive at an expression that resonates profoundly, the process makes me realize that I merely facilitate the arrival. There is a sense of humility and a reason to be optimistic in being a part of the process that taps into a realm of unknown and to be rewarded with something that reflects who we are as humans.

Now, one way or the other, many artists come to recognize that the world is run by an abusive hierarchy with efficiency, productivity, obedience and so on as priorities in serving the core of the authoritarianism. The framework itself and its imperatives go against what we regard as optimum conditions for making art.

This imposes an existential questions for artists, or it should, I think—if we examine the meaning of truly serving humanity and nature. As artists, we are certainly obligated to commit to our work. We establish our environments to do our work. How do we, then, reconcile the difficulty of working within the framework, which negates our ways of connecting to humanity and nature—and in many ways, negates humanity and nature themselves?

Being well physically, and compartmentalizing our roles to subsist at all and etc. are necessary steps to remain humans. I’m glad that you mentioned those and I totally understand.

But when we look at things outside of our studio with our honest eyes as we do in our studios, we are bound to notice that we live in a world where bombs are being dropped to spread “democracy”, corporate crimes are committed in the name of “freedom” to profit and conspiracies to exploit and subjugate are codified in the name of “justice”. If we don’t see all that, we could be forced to be embellishments of the empire just as the court painters of the past, or artists for the religious establishment of feudalism.

I do struggle with this. It’s been years since I started to write about the structural impediments of capitalism and imperialism in order to share, learn and understand about the topics. I see it as a part of connecting dots in my studio, for the same reason you find it important to regard all you do as a part of the making process.

I do feel the sense of urgency in it since the ongoing momentum could choke creativity and imagination out of our lives, leaving us to choose merely from multiple questions provided by the establishment, which would force us to be stuck in the capitalist cage.

I also do feel that how we approach art can be a key to turn the tide. But such a momentum can only grow constructively with understanding of its importance by the general public.

Anyway, those are some aspects of my mental-scape today.

Let me thank you for having this conversation with you.

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